Happy Holidays to my fellow 323 Enthusiasts! (also rebedding fixed ports)

[Sea Haven]

Yeah, I got some 2 oz kits leftover from other projects.

Travaco Marine-Tex Epoxy Putty Kit - 2 Ounce

Since it's "hidden" JB Cold Weld is the less expensive route as well as getting the job done too! 1/3 the price!

Epoxy, Marine Cold Weld, Dk Gry, 2 oz

Just to finish off and seal the edges.

"Sub" Ed

[Dolce_Vita]

1. I noticed that the "gap" between inner liner and outer cabin is nonexistent in many places and very small in others. This is definitely different than photos that I have seen of other boats where the gap may have been 1/4 to 3/8 wide. Based on this and the experience of others on this site, I am thinking that I will not fill the gap with epoxy. Perhaps a hardwood spacer? Any thoughts about this approach?

The spacer and the filler serve two different purposes.  The spacer(s) get you an even gap, while the epoxy filler is to keep any water intrusion out of the liner. 

When I did the small opening port in the head, I too found a small gap that varied from 0 to 1/4".   For spacers, I used hardwood craft sticks (aka popsickle stiks) laminated 2  thick.  These were stuck in place with epoxy and then clamped to get a uniform gap all around. 



Once these set, I wetted down the whole gap, and filled it with thickened WEST G-Flex epoxy.  Even with the epoxy thickened to the consistency of peanut butter, it tended to sag overhead, and I found it necessary to shore it in place with blue painters tape until it set.

[Libations Too]

Thanks Ed! Your repair looks great. I did see your photos on another post; I did not realize that you had similar, nonexistent gaps at some places. How did you choose the spacer thickness? Was it simply the thickness of the widest gap and then the smaller gaps were forced open to receive the spacer?

[Libations Too]

Some progress photos below.

I cut 1/8-inch thick Doug fir shims to use as spacers between the inner liner and the outer cabin house. After dry fitting (and destroying some of the shims as I removed them) I realized that a rectangular cross section was not desired. I found that to fit well, they needed to be wedge shaped to accommodate the shape of the gap that I was trying to fill. The Doug fir worked easily with wood rasp and 100 grit sand paper. I inserted shims all the way around the port opening.

With unthickened epoxy, the liner/cabin house side walls (within the gap) and edges were coated with epoxy. After brushing epoxy onto both sides of the shim they were inserted into the gap and tapped into the gap creating a channel at least 1/4-inch deep. Clamps were applied and I retired home for a glass of wine! Many thanks to my wife who suited up to be my helper today...this job is definitely easier with two people working together.

Next step is to remove the clamps and fill the channel with Marine-tex epoxy putty. The aluminum frames are being powder coated and when finished, the fun of installing the glass can begin.

[Alma]

Well- I just rebuilt my ports again. I guess the vinyl glazing channel is only good for about 13 years... Why it lasts indefinitely in shoreside storm windows is anyone's guess.

I really had a tough time removing the ports. I had used so much silicone bedding them last time, the channels in the extrusions were filled in places with silicone caulk. That prevented the hurky-jerky motion to lift the ports up and out. Last weekend I did the Port side. One day to remove the Port side ports and another day overhauling them and reinstalling them back at the boat yard. I also used Compass Butyl Caulk. I used two courses around the ports and another course at each end and another 2" section behind the seams. The caulk squeezed out nicely and was easy to clean up. I shall never again use silicone other than to bed plastic!

This last weekend I tackled the Starboard side pair. It took me three hours to get the caulk out of the channels and remove the aft port. I took my time and kept at it until the Starboard aft port was able to be pushed out of the cabin side. I pushed and POP- RIGHT OVER THE SIDE!!!!

I didn't bother running down the ladder to the boatyard's stone and mud- I really didn't give an earthworm's bottom what happened. It would've been the push I needed to 'glass up the sides and call NFM for new stainless opening ports.

Incredibly the window was UNDAMAGED!

The forward starboard side window came out in 20 minutes...

They are all back in and look good. We had our share of rain early this week- I'll go down tomorrow with a hose and see if they are watertight!

[Libations Too]

Alma,

I understand your comments about silicone clogging the channels in the frame extrusions. Mine were the same and it seemed to take forever to get enough out of the way to move the frames up/down and eventually out.

I am curious about the application sequence for the butyl tape. Did you apply it to the frame or to the cabin house? Before or after putting the frame back into the cabin house opening? Any lessons-learned or suggestions for others?

Thanks,

[selene]

Personally I put it on the frame.  After installation I also filled voids from the inside before I put the inside cover on.

No need to tighten the screws too tightly - the butyl will gently ooze out; I suggest loose-tighten the screws initially, return the next day and tighten more.  Fortunately with the warm weather (sorry non-CA folks) it should settle in quickly. A plastic or blunt knife around the excess generally allows you to peel the excess off in a long strip.

I'd also be interested in Alma's experience.

Incidentally, I just finished rebedding the stanchions with butyl.  Seems like the decks are balsa core, with ply in the structural areas (such as below the winches). 

[Libations Too]

Thanks Selene.

If I recall from your earlier post above, the openings on your 323 were large enough to insert the frames without the "hurky-jerky" up/down motion that Alma referenced. Am I correct?

On Libations (and apparently on Alma) the openings cut into the cabin house are actually smaller than the port frames and installation requires one to push the top and one side in first, then lift (or pry) the frame upwards and sideways (using the channel space in the frame itself to receive the cabin house) far enough that the lower edge of the frame will slip over the cabin house edge. Then the frame can be positioned and the screws on the inner retaining ring can be tightened. My fear is that with such a "hurky-jerky" motion any butyl tape applied to the frame would be damaged well before the final tightening of the inner retaining ring (or more likely in my case pulled free of either the frame or the cabin house as the frame is moved into its final position).

I certainly will follow your earlier advice about a dry fit before the butyl tap is applied. But I also am looking for hints about how others have solved this problem. I could always just get out my grinder or router and enlarge the openings but that is the last option I want to consider.

[selene]

Hi Richard - yes, I see, thanks for explaining; mine popped out without the "hurky-jerky".  And I would also be very reluctant to rout the opening any bigger!

Weigh in, folks....

[Alma]

I used two courses of Butyl on the frame flanges. Another third in a "c" shape around the ends and about 8" towards the center to make up for the cabinsides camber. With the extrusions cleaned of silicone I still struggled getting the frames in with a "dry fit" so I very carefully removed material from the apertures until a dry fit was easy enough (still hurky-jerky) that I wouldn't scrape away Butyl once the flanges had the courses of tape applied. I didn't need to fill voids as I had filled 'n faired the apertures with shims and thickened epoxy 13 years ago when I last did this renovation. When I epoxied the cabinsides to the hull liner I made that area slightly wider than it was with just the cabinsides and hull liner. This prevents me from getting the same amount of "play" in slipping the extrusions into the apertures. See Ed's photos to see how this upgrade is done. It is tedious but worth it to have a consistent thickness for the flanges and more importantly the clamping interior piece upon assembly. Here in Jersey last week I did need to apply some tension to the screws and re torque them after a day or so. They do NOT leak!

We have a beautiful High Pressure in the Mid-Atlantic this weekend for 323 work.

I'll be tied up in Hershey, PA for the world's biggest PORSCHE swap-meet!

Enjoy!

[Libations Too]

Thanks Alma! Your experience and comments are quite helpful.

[Libations Too]

I have finally finished this project. Thanks to all who have provided helpful comments.

I have posted a link to my project summary over on the "Hull and Deck Structure" page of this 323 Community Forum.