Retrofitting gasoline Atomic 4

[Moondance]

1st post to this forum. Hello.

We have determined we need to replace our gasoline fueled Atomic 4. Like most others we prefer to complete the job in the most efficient and cost effective manner possible.  I know I can get a completely overhauled A4 from Moyer Marine for around $5000 plus tax, shipping, installation and incidentals. Realistically $8,000 ballpark figure.

I have no emotional attachment to the A4 so would consider swapping for an available diesel but I understand that means new mounting, shaft, prop and who knows what else. I dont know where to begin looking for a replacement and dont know anyone personally who has completed such a retrofit.  Also we have limited competent mechanics in this area.

I would love to get some guidance here on practicality, cost, time and availability of replacements.

Thanks in advance for any advice you may offer.

Gary
S/V Moondance

[selene]

It is a tough decision. 

As you probably know, there would appear to be a preference amongst buyers for diesel; I am not sure I understand if there is a rational component to this, and have yet to see a truly convincing argument one way or the other.  Although I do not have an A4, I know others who do, and it is a reliable little workhorse, and for anybody familiar with gas engines straightforward to maintain.  So personally I won't enter the Diesel vs. gas debate.

As I understand it, you are correct, new mounting, shaft and prop at a minimum. Cutless bearing while you are at it.

One factor you may wish to consider is the offset of the prop shaft.  We had a lively discussion a while back trying to work this out, and understand the implications:
http://www.pearson323.com/forum/index.php/topic,282.0.html

It seems that in the factory diesels were offset to starboard, A4 to port. The purpose of the offset is to make it easy to remove the prop shaft (otherwise the skeg is in the way).  But depending on the rotation of the engine, the prop will either be a LH or a RH prop - which will either counter or exacerbate any propwalk you may have.

Final thought - regardless of your choice, build in some time while the engine is out to "redecorate" the engine compartment.  It is a great opportunity to inspect, repaint, and upgrade in a space which is otherwise a very tight fit! And you may want to consider a non-drip seal, easy to install when the shaft is out.

Good luck....

[Libations Too]

Hello Gary, and welcome to the forum!

My two cents: Any engine replacement will be more straight forward and with less need to change other systems if the replacement engine is the same as the one being removed. You have identified some of the additional scope items that need to be addressed if changing to a different engine; the "who knows what else" is a real issue if you want to do the work efficiently and cost effectively.

The A4 offers the significant advantage that it is still available and parts are readily available. That cannot be said for the Volvo MD-11 diesel so a switch to a diesel would trigger some design as well as component challenges. I do know that some on this forum have replaced the Volvo diesel in the 323 with a Beta diesel, but I think that the switch to the Beta has also typically required removal of some of the liner structure below the sink and behind the companionway stair.

Knowing what I do about your specific boat, experience, and sailing objectives (which is admittedly very little) if I were you, I'd stick with the A4.

[Sea Haven]

Welcome aboard!!

The little engine that could.....

I had no emotional attachment to the A4 myself when I acquired SEA HAVEN myself two season ago.

I now do.

I so love how I can work on this engine to the point of replacement!
FWIW, I'm wrapping up a complete Alternator/Starter/Gauge/Primary wiring replacement along with conversion to Electronic ignition from "points" as it was all original '78. Do the math for longevity!
I'M doing this, a nerd who barely changed the oil on his own car! Not the yard.

Libations Too says it all....but I do have to add I would not trade the customer service alone from Moyer Marine for all the "pro's" of diesel one can think of. Not knocking diesel owners, owned them myself, but ask yourself is conversion worth it? Is this the last boat you plan to own or will you eventually sell her?

Just my 30 horses.

""Sub" Ed

[rbrtfeld]

MoonDance,

Great information from Selene, Libations Two and Sea Haven, as an owner of a MD 11 I can attest to the high price and difficulty of getting parts for the MD 11. On another note they are really hard to work on in the limited space available. Checking the oil is even hard if you haven't done it before. You are good right where you are at with the A4 set up. Even if you have to spend the $8,000 for a rebuilt A4, that is a bargain and much less than you would spend putting in a Diesel like the Beta.  In my opinion the big difference is the safety issues with Gas or Diesel. It is not even a argument that Gas is more dangerous on a boat than Diesel, but if you are careful and take all the safety measures to refuel and start you engine, I think it is no problem.  Good luck and fair winds, you are going to love the Pearson 323 when you get her going.
SV Rockstar

[Dolce_Vita]

Hi Gary,

  First, welcome to the forum!

I just had to put in my 2 cents worth here.  Like Sea Haven, I too had no particular knowledge or attachment for the A4.  In fact, I was one of those buyers who specifically wanted a diesel.  Wiser friends convinced me that, if all else was right, an A4 engine should not eliminate the boat from consideration. I took their advice and have never regretted it.

We have determined we need to replace our gasoline fueled Atomic 4.

First off, who is the  "we" who have determined that the A4 needs replacement? The aforementioned "limited competent mechanics"?  I have seen too many cases of diesel mechanics who recommend replacing an A4 that needs no more than new plugs and a little cleaning and tuning.  The A4 is an incredibly tough, overbuilt little beast. There is little, other than a cracked block, that can completely kill one.  Head over to the Moyer Marine Forum and describe your situation there.  You'll get no end of really high quality help and information.


 

...Like most others we prefer to complete the job in the most efficient and cost effective manner possible.  I know I can get a completely overhauled A4 from Moyer Marine for around $5000 plus tax, shipping, installation and incidentals. Realistically $8,000 ballpark figure...

And the equivalent job for a diesel replacement is going to run you $17,000 - $20,000.  That's more than I paid for my boat!  The economics alone doesn't make sense.

... I understand that means new mounting, shaft, prop and who knows what else....

Don't forget the fuel tank, controls, and ignition system.

 

[Moondance]

Hello again and thanks to everyone who contributed their time and thoughts to my A4 issues. Sorry it took so long to return. We did complete the engine swap.

As with most everything in life, timing is everything.  Some of the best advice we received was after we committed to a specific course of action. As Dolce Vita pointed out the "We" who determined the engine was bad was in large part the available mechanics of this area, but ultimately I took the mechanics advice to form my own opinions. I'm a capable but not an expert mechanic and new to boating, working in marinas on the docks, etc. Figuring out protocols and not getting myself in trouble over civil issues was all part of my concern. Looking back those concerns were warranted.

 The decision to swap engines vs repair was based on low oil pressure, low compression and the known and unknown history of this engine prior to our ownership..

Without the knowledge and experience of the good folks at Moyer Marine this would never have happened the way it did. I am grateful for their resources. Final cost including installation as close as I can figure: $8,977. $1200 of that was overcharges from a disreputable mechanic. This did not include my time off work.

The job was finished back in June but it's never really finished is it? 

Side note;
The sea trial involved 4 ft waves near shoals off of Bird Island, NC near the Little River, SC inlet during a full moon phase with an ebb tide. Did I mention my crew mate is prone to motion sickness? In spite of that, all was well with the world.

The new engine performed flawlessly for the 40 minutes to open ocean where we put Moondance through some testing for confidence's sake. Once convinced the engine would restart at will, we hoisted sail and enjoyed the favorable winds for the next hour and 1/2.

After securing the head and mainsails we restarted the engine with the inlet in sight and keeping a respectable distance from the shoals on the windward side. Once we were within 200 yards of the shoals demons within the engine compartment began shouting for my attention. I immediately shut down our shiny new pride and joy A4 to look for the possible cause of the grinding and crushing metal noises.

Couldn't find the cause so restarted the engine but it just wouldn't stay running for more than 3 or 4 seconds. It appeared to be fuel starvation. 24 hrs after being towed back to port I discovered a tightly packed spiders nest in the fuel tank vent. The new fuel pump had actually sucked in the sides of the metal fuel tank causing the crushing metal sound I heard over the sound of the running engine. There were no other issues. The engine has performed as expected since that day with 97 hrs on the Hobbs since then.

Now I'm looking to replace the choke cable. Finding one the proper length and quality has been a real challenge.
 

[Alma]

Now that it is confirmed Diesel exhaust is carcinogenic- my hatred of Diesel fumes is tenfold. I have sailed and delivered many diesel powered craft both power and sail. Each one reminds me of the cute little powerhouse in my engine room. A-4- it doesn't get any better!

Strap on a NOS BALMAR 80 amp alternator and smart regulator and you'll be set!

[Moondance]

I am currently trying to find a replacement cable for my Pearson 323. I read Don Moyer's opinion that the stiff single strand wire is a better option than a multistrand.

My 32 ft  Pearson has 11 ft of choke cable. It really should be longer. My existing equipment has  a steel multi strand cable inside a nylon tube which is then wrapped in vinyl to minimize the friction and allows  a full range of operation even after bending around a wide radius. I have not found any replacement cables approximating the same combination of length, construction, quality and ease of operation found in the original cable, but the original one is damaged and worn out. The only replacements I can find are all wound steel around a stiff single strand wire.  I have experimented with those in the 12 ft to 15 ft range. Even when stretched out straight they are difficult to operate. Some guidance and advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
Gary
S/V Moondance

[Dolce_Vita]

If you can't locate a cable to your liking, and you don't mind a little creativness, you might consider this alternative.

Over at the Moyer Marine Forum, two of the members ahve successfully adapted an automotive electric door lock motor as a choke controller.  Sort of an "electric choke".  The cable then gets replaced with some electrical wire and a switch, making it mechanically much simpler.  It does restrict you to either "full choke" or "no choke", but this is the way most of us utilize our chokes almost all the time.

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11327&stc=1&d=1450343154