Racing Tips

[selene]

Do what I may, even with our PHRF of 180, I am not doing as well in the beercans as I would like. (I am generally using a working jib, have a fully-battened loose-footed main, sailing in 20-25 knot SF Bay winds.) Now clearly my sailing skills can be honed, and the P323 doesn't point as high as a modern boat, but I know we can do better - and would welcome any tips.

Before you jump in - clean bottoms are good  , and if ever I get the budget, a folding prop would really help.  And yeah, many pump out all water/diesel/waste, remove spare anchors, generally strip out all weight possible...and I knew I wasn't getting (or looking for) for a racer when I bought her!! But what I was interested in is any sailing/trim tips to get the best out of our babies.

Here's one for starters: The traveler position is REALLY important.

Any other tips/thoughts?

[Dolce_Vita]

I'm in a similar position, except that I mostly cruise, and only occasionally do a pursuit race.
I do race on another boat, so I have a pretty good working knowledge of sail trim.

But I'm really frustrated on my boat.  I don't expect it to point like a go-fast machine
but I often find I can't get higher than 60 deg to the true wind!  I'm not the world's
greatest sail trimmer, but something seems fundamentally wrong.

I have a 2-year old set of sails.  The main is fixed-footed and partially battened. No vang.
The genoa is a roller furling 135.
Hull is clean, smooth,  & freshly painted.
Bimini.  No dodger.

I've experimented with traveler placement and jib lead placement, but just can't get it
to point worth a damn.  This makes for some really long passages when traveling to windward.

So, I too am looking for some suggestions on sail & rig trim.

[Libations Too]

I am not a serious racer but have raced in SInglehanded Sailing Society races for several years....both in San Francisco Bay and on coastal races to Half Moon Bay, the Farallones, and the LongPac.  I have not raced in any beer can races

What I have learned is that the 323 excels in heavy weather.  My trophies have been earned in winds over 25 knots and where other boats experience gear failures or where the sea state is too much for lighter displacement boats.  I have also learned that the 323, like many boats, sails best on her feet....so reef early and manage sail trim to minimize weather helm. Lastly, it is easy for me to sail too high when going to windward; falling off a bit, improves boat speed and often results in a better VMG than if I try to sail too close to the wind. Some twist in the sails, varying with sea state, also keeps a portion of the sail working no matter how sea state changes the angle of attack.

I have had less luck in light air.  My largest headsail is 120 percent and I am toying with the idea of getting a 150 for those days when the breeze is less that 10 knots.

[selene]

Not sure if this is hijacking my own thread, but Richard did say the P323 perform well in heavier winds.

So I was in the "slot" (SF bay, just E of Alcatraz) couple of days ago...wind 30knots,  main was double reefed, jib (100% working) furled 50% (which I hate, such an ugly shape, so much stress).  Close reach. Traveler leeward to let some power out...

Moderate heel (~20-30 degrees) , and the boat didn't feel "right" - subjective, I know, just not convinced I had the trim right.  Would welcome any suggestions for sail configurations in these conditions.

Thoughts I had:
- A P323 jib has a LOT of power. Much bigger than the main.  IMHO, a 100% is a big sail in that wind.
- A smaller jib would have been nice. 70%? Any suggestions? 
- Jib only?  Main only? 
- Maybe add a third reef point? (PITA due to more hardware needed on boom for the new clew)

Gotta love the bay. In a single day, winds 30 knots, winds 20 knots, winds 10 knots, becalmed....just depends where you are!

[Libations Too]

FWIW...I think a third reef in the main is overkill for the Bay. I have a third reef point in the main in lieu of a trysail and have only used it a couple times, and they were on a coastal passages.  The traveler is my friend in the Bay, especially when passing through the slot.  Even with a single reef in the main the traveler is effective in depowering the main and managing weather helm.

As you suggested, furling a head sail to 50% of it's normal shape does not give a very effective shape.  My summer sail in the Bay is a 95% jib and I furl it only when absolutely needed and then only a few turns. It has reef patch reinforcements along the foot and I never furl beyond the reef patches. Your idea of a 70% jib with a couple reefs in the main sounds like a good combination for 30 knots....but not too useful otherwise.

[selene]

Good advice, thanks.

So winds in lighter winds (say up to 20 knots), the P323 isn't at her best; she is particularly weak pointing. IMHO the shallow keel, and relatively large windage are the main causes. I have the sails all fairly tight (drum-tight does not seem to work well), traveler all the way to windward, outhaul tight, for best effect; even so I point slightly off the wind to keep speed up.  I once was in the laughable position of heading very close to the wind, sails full and drawing (not in irons or pinching), yet totally stationary!! I guess the 0.7knot current was too much....

However, the P323 seems competitive reaching or running, and in heavier winds/seas.

So as Richard says, we do better in heavier seas.  So what sailplan do people suggest when winds over 20knots, for optimal control/performance?

Up to 20 knots, I am okay with single reef, and full working jib (100%) - and (as mentioned) the traveler is key.  Over 20knots, I have played with reducing the jib - up to 25% seems okay. Second reef depowers a bit, but not as much as I expected.  But she feels overpowered/heavy, even when balanced (minimal weatherhelm).

So I would be interested in hearing from people on optimal sail plans 25knots up.....

[selene]

FWIW, latest sailing tip - this one is more of a noob mistake, I think - the jib cars need to be a long way forwards, especially in lighter wind conditions.

I generally use a working jib (100%), and that puppy has 100sq ft more sail than the main.  So although I have been working hard over summer to get the main as tuned as possible, I neglected the jib.  That's a big, powerful sail in the P323!  Ignoring advice from a number of 'old salts' I tried moving the car further forwards, and got a nicer shape in the sail and more power.

So most of you reading this are probably shaking their sage heads, and saying "duh".  But just in case it helps somebody, try moving those cars....

[Captain Bri]

I have limited sailing time on my P323 so I can't add specifics, but my background is racing in one design keelboats. I enjoy building a crew and sailing fast, or at least efficiently. The good news I read in this thread is that the P323 excels in heavy air - just want I was looking for in a cruising boat.

Jib Lead Topic:
-- Install 3 sets of telltales 8"-12" aft of the leading edge (luff). The driver and jib trimmer should work together to keep them flying - plenty of communication here, we don't want quiet crew. Make small adjustments at a time, and on a light air day keep the sheet uncleated. Install telltale windows if possible so you can see the leeward side.
-- Jib Lead Forward gives you more camber (ie: power) in the sail shape and closes the leech. Be carefull not to allow the leech to hook inwards - you want a nice flat exit profile on the leech. Remember the air leaving your jib leech is helping to provide lift to the main so you don't want to create turbulence here. This is the light air position, or low gear for more power.
-- Jib Lead Aft flattens the sail with less camber and opens up the leech (more twist). This leech profile will spill air when the wind picks and is effectively high gear. Head up in the puffs and down in the lulls.
-- Baseline Jib Lead position is determined with the boat sailing close hauled and a balanced helm. Head up slowly and watch for the luff to break (backwind) evenly from top to bottom of the sail.  To determine the break watch the telltales and luff of the sail.  If they break at the top first move the leads forward, if they break at the bottom first move them aft. Some boats work better if they break slightly in favor of the top, not sure about the P323. A trick to remember this: "bottom back". This can be done numerous times between races and as conditions change.  Always be sure the leads are in the same position, move the "lazy sheet" lead, tack, then move the other to match positions so you don't forget.
Remember to trim main and jib in concert maintaining an even leech profile by looking up the slot. Find a happy medium with the slot, not too open or closed. The main will be trimmed in slightly closer to centerline due to the benefit provided by the headsail. 
I could go on but instead... at your convenience take a look at my Top Ten lists for "Sail Trim" and "Race Crew". They are in no particular order by the way. Good Luck and keep up the great discussion.