Pearson Yachts Forum
Pearson Boats - Common Systems => Standing & Running Rigging and Fitting/Tuning => Topic started by: edithcollins on February 07, 2018, 02:10:53 PM
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So, in the race this past weekend, we were 3rd to the weather mark behind a couple of J boats and got left behind going down wind. We do not have a whisker pole, and my crew decided that we needed one. My comment was "when I get an extra $1,500.00 I have no other use for..."
Are there other options besides the forespar telescoping model? Anyone have a used one they don't want?
Thanks!
Edith
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Congratulations on the windward leg, impressive in the 323! I have been looking around too, for a telescoping pole, and it seems Forespar has a corner on the market. It is nice to be able to adjust to match the foot of different sails.
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The best price I have seen is from Layline. If I get it shipped to the club, it saves about $100 on shipping because it is a business. Go figure.
Now the question is do I want tires for my car or a whisker pole?
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I will pay extra not to have to convert metric to imperial!
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Keep your eye on Craig's List - it is amazing what comes up there. A friend got a nice pole for his Islander 28, about $200.
Of course, I never get that kind of break....
And please share your secrets on windward legs. I always get savaged! Unless it is a bit choppy, those J boats are very light :-)
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Took a closer look at Seldén (http://www.seldenmast.com/en/products.html) and found one of the best rigging guides I have seen for all things "standing". I attached a copy of their whisker pole specs.
The Selden Telescopic pole seems more affordable from Layline. It appears that Art No. 072-072-61 would be appropriate for the P323. The optimal length is based on your Genoa foot length. Of course you would want to confirm with the dealer/manufacturer. Here is what I calculated in feet (rounded):
- 2.8" dia OD
- 9.68' minimum length
- 13.78' length for heavy air conditions
- 17.22' length for light air conditions
(http://pearsonyachts.org/images/wp_selden.jpg)
Another thought for downwind performance with the mainsail -- vang tension will keep the boom from lifting up, which loses power due to twist. Trim vang to keep top batten parallel to the boom.
And please share your secrets on windward legs. I always get savaged! Unless it is a bit choppy, those J boats are very light :-)
Its all about VMG (but chop can help even things out). Short list:
- Start on time at full speed
- Stay in clear air
- Sail in phase (with the shifts)
- Sail mostly on the lifted tack (tack on headers)
Keep your eye on Craig's List - it is amazing what comes up there.
Yes it is. Just this week I picked up a free Laser with two virtually new racing sails. It is missing the mast but it gives me new sails and two hulls to see which is faster.
Fair Sails!
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No vang yet either. PO was very much a cruiser, which is fine, but we do race.
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A vang is a necessary upgrade, my boat did not have one either.
Just wanted to show the Forespar pole too. I have been considering mounting the pole on the mast as demonstrated on their Website (http://www.forespar.com/whisker-poles.shtml).
(http://pearsonyachts.org/images/wp_forespar.jpg)
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Sorry to beat to windward, but I love this stuff...
If you are lucky enough to have a nice Gennaker or Asymmetrical there is a bowsprit kit that would attach nicely to our anchor platform. You would sail faster but not as deep - it takes a while to get used to the angles as more gybes are required. It is possible to do wing-on-wing but could be a little tricky as it may require a pole to hold her steady. Seldén Bowprit Kit - Art No. 075-075-70 (http://www.seldenmast.com/en/products/spinnaker_-_gennaker_hardware/gennaker_bowsprits.html)
(http://pearson323.com/images/selden_bowsprit.jpg)
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cool,
That would knock me out of our "cruising fleet" for sure! It would be very fun though!
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A vang is a necessary upgrade, my boat did not have one either.
Just wanted to show the Forespar pole too. I have been considering mounting the pole on the mast as demonstrated on their Website (http://www.forespar.com/whisker-poles.shtml).
(http://pearsonyachts.org/images/wp_forespar.jpg)
Thanks Sea Fever!
BTW, I judged an Opti regatta at Camp Sea Gull this Summer. What a wonderful part of the world!!!
You are very fortunate to live in such a lovely part of the world!
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Garhauer vang - you'll never look back.
As I mentioned in an earlier thread, I also replaced the traveller with a new Garhauer setup. The traveller significantly improved my ability to trim the sails - as the original one was so stiff (age, and not enough mechanical advantage) as to be unusable.
And the boom vang is also easy to use, turning adjustments into a pleasure.
Garhauer makes very high quality marine hardware at very reasonable prices. If you have not yet discovered them they are worth a visit:
http://garhauermarine.com/
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+1 on Garhauer Vang. Mine is over ten years old and is still as new. Another upside is supporting the boom should you forget the topping lift when lowering the main.
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I discovered Garhauer when I broke the Schaefer genoa car in a blow. Coming from the racing world, I had never heard of them. The friend who loaned me a car for the next day's race, turned me onto them. They are a bargain at twice the price! That is the vang we want. I need to look into moving the hatch, etc.
Husband wants the pole first...
Next question about the whisker pole; do y'all have the pad eye on a movable car on a track like you would a spinnaker, or do you have a fixed pad eye?
I know which forespar pole to get, but don't know the part numbers for the other stuff. Also, the stanchion mounted pole storage looks great. I need to check the other thread for comments on that.
Thanks!
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Mine has a ring car, presumably from the factory (see where halyard shackle is attached).
(http://pearson323.com/images/ring_car.png)
If you do not have a track on your mast you will need to install one to accommodate an adjustable ring car. Forespar recommends Ring Car RC-125 (331000) with 1 1/4" T-Track (339007) and end stops MS-125 (339009). If I had to install a new track and car I would consider going with a mast-mounted pole for ease of deployment. It would require a longer track and different attachment hardware and rigging instead of a ring car.
(http://pearson323.com/images/ring_car_RC-125.jpg)
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Thanks!
Would 4 feet be enough?
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...Next question about the whisker pole; do y'all have the pad eye on a movable car on a track like you would a spinnaker, or do you have a fixed pad eye?...
Ours has a pair of fixed pad eyes, one on each side of the mast, just above the gooseneck, and no track on the mast. I've always assumed that was OEM. ???
Here's a pic from our 2013 mast-rebuild project showing one of them.
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Mine looks just like the setup pictured in SeaFever's post.
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Mine also looks just like the setup pictured in SeaFever's post. Very useful with different sail geometries. In summer, we have brisk winds - 20-25kn - so I use a high-cut 90% blade. In winter (yes, California, so we sail all year!) I fly my big genoa, clew a lot lower. The track makes adjustment easy.
From memory, 4' sounds about right.
I also keep the pole on the stanchions. Less windage, easy to deploy. I had to make a small bracket aft (parts from Sailrite) so the pole did not rub against the chainplates. Seems to work well.
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Thanks for the confirmation on the track length and the stanchion mount!
I have a lead on a used pole and my Husband reminded me that I can use the pole car off of his Cal 227!
Hopefully this will fall into place before our next big race in April.
I appreciate each of you!!!
Edith
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I have been offered a forespar 7-15 for $200.00
The specs say we should have a 10-18. I have a furling headsail with a maximum of 142%.
Will the 3 feet make a difference?
Thanks for all of your help!
Edith
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Hard to say with that big genoa. As a rule of thumb the pole length should match your foot length, but it may be worth a try at that price.
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Spinnaker pole or whisker pole if racing can not be any longer than 100% of the J. Pearson 323 J is 13.83 feet, which is about 13 feet 9 inches . I carry a 4" diameter pole at 13 feet 6" for both wing and wing , and spinnaker runs. I also carry a forespar adjustable pole 2" in diameter, 7 feet and extend to no more than 13 feet 9 inches per phrf rules. I will use it in light winds no more than 8 mph winds , according to Bill M from forespar with that small diameter. Any thing heavier chance of bending it. Great price at $200 dollars. Bob K CHANCE hull 10 1977 owner 41 years
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Thanks! Pole is being shipped today. I appreciate everyone's help. I am very relieved that the consensus is that a 15 foot pole should be susificent. Our next race is on April 21st, We need to put the track on the mast, but hopefully that is something we can do after work.
FYI, several of you have commented that "it is illegal to use a pole over the J of the boat while racing."
As a US Sailing National Judge, I feel compelled to comment on that statement.
The only time a "pole" is mentioned in the Racing Rules of Sailing is in 50.3 (c) and it says that " a headsail may be sheeted or attached at its clew to a spinnaker pole or a whisker pole, provided that a spinnaker is not already set."
The PHRF rules limit a spinnaker pole to the length of J but, (at least on my lake) there are no limitations to the size of the whisker pole. Your PHRF folks may be much meaner than ours.
Thanks again!
Edith